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	<title>Comments on: Distributed Teams are not Teams</title>
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	<link>http://agilethinking.net/blog/2008/07/18/distributed-teams-are-not-teams/</link>
	<description>Tobias Mayer's Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Tobias</title>
		<link>http://agilethinking.net/blog/2008/07/18/distributed-teams-are-not-teams/comment-page-1/#comment-133462</link>
		<dc:creator>Tobias</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 19:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agilethinking.net/blog/2008/07/18/distributed-teams-are-not-teams/#comment-133462</guid>
		<description>Harold, I would certainly encourage self-organization over centralized control (which seems to happen anyway in most open-source implementations -- e.g. the Bazaar model).  But I wouldn&#039;t call it Scrum.  Open Source has always been very successful without Scrum.  It doesn&#039;t need it.  Command cultures, traditional businesses relying on top-down, mechanistic ways of thinking and working, those are the places that need Scrum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harold, I would certainly encourage self-organization over centralized control (which seems to happen anyway in most open-source implementations &#8212; e.g. the Bazaar model).  But I wouldn&#8217;t call it Scrum.  Open Source has always been very successful without Scrum.  It doesn&#8217;t need it.  Command cultures, traditional businesses relying on top-down, mechanistic ways of thinking and working, those are the places that need Scrum.</p>
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		<title>By: Harald Walker</title>
		<link>http://agilethinking.net/blog/2008/07/18/distributed-teams-are-not-teams/comment-page-1/#comment-133380</link>
		<dc:creator>Harald Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 15:20:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agilethinking.net/blog/2008/07/18/distributed-teams-are-not-teams/#comment-133380</guid>
		<description>I am curious if and how you would use Scrum or similar agile methodologies to manage open source software projects, where usually the core developers are distributed all over the planet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am curious if and how you would use Scrum or similar agile methodologies to manage open source software projects, where usually the core developers are distributed all over the planet.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Rocheteau</title>
		<link>http://agilethinking.net/blog/2008/07/18/distributed-teams-are-not-teams/comment-page-1/#comment-106474</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Rocheteau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:30:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agilethinking.net/blog/2008/07/18/distributed-teams-are-not-teams/#comment-106474</guid>
		<description>These statements are hogwash and arrogant.  Let&#039;s see.  So if I don&#039;t use scrum the way prescribed here, then my reality is not quite as good as yours?  That&#039;s just nonsense.  A team does not become one because they are &quot;co-located&quot;.  They become a team because they can read each others minds, because they complement each others talents and because they have a strong sense of commitment to a singular vision.  

To imply that I should refuse work or revert to some less adaptable process is ludicrous unimaginative.  I also find your inference that management is somehow to blame.  Take a little responsibility, find some imagination and find the right people.  If you can’t get distributed teams to work effectively and efficiently then perhaps you need to look inward rather than sticking out your chest and refusing to work at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These statements are hogwash and arrogant.  Let&#8217;s see.  So if I don&#8217;t use scrum the way prescribed here, then my reality is not quite as good as yours?  That&#8217;s just nonsense.  A team does not become one because they are &#8220;co-located&#8221;.  They become a team because they can read each others minds, because they complement each others talents and because they have a strong sense of commitment to a singular vision.  </p>
<p>To imply that I should refuse work or revert to some less adaptable process is ludicrous unimaginative.  I also find your inference that management is somehow to blame.  Take a little responsibility, find some imagination and find the right people.  If you can’t get distributed teams to work effectively and efficiently then perhaps you need to look inward rather than sticking out your chest and refusing to work at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Stacia Broderick</title>
		<link>http://agilethinking.net/blog/2008/07/18/distributed-teams-are-not-teams/comment-page-1/#comment-101246</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacia Broderick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 00:35:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agilethinking.net/blog/2008/07/18/distributed-teams-are-not-teams/#comment-101246</guid>
		<description>I love this post, Tobias. We seem to forget that we can usher in a new set of &quot;given circumstances&quot; to change our realities. Reality is the result of people and their decisions. People can change and they can also change their decisions. I have also had an experience like William&#039;s, and I also agree that we need to keep pushing the &#039;general public&#039; to take an introspective look at how they&#039;re running their businesses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love this post, Tobias. We seem to forget that we can usher in a new set of &#8220;given circumstances&#8221; to change our realities. Reality is the result of people and their decisions. People can change and they can also change their decisions. I have also had an experience like William&#8217;s, and I also agree that we need to keep pushing the &#8216;general public&#8217; to take an introspective look at how they&#8217;re running their businesses.</p>
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		<title>By: William Pietri</title>
		<link>http://agilethinking.net/blog/2008/07/18/distributed-teams-are-not-teams/comment-page-1/#comment-97735</link>
		<dc:creator>William Pietri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 01:13:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agilethinking.net/blog/2008/07/18/distributed-teams-are-not-teams/#comment-97735</guid>
		<description>Hi, Tobias!

I used to agree completely with this, but have since coached exactly one distributed team that really is a team. They are a group of people who worked together for years physically, live just a couple hours&#039; drive apart,  and have strong relationships. They get together physically as needed, circa once a month. The rest of the time, they work virtually, with a lot of audio conferencing and virtual pair programming. They know this isn&#039;t ideal, but strongly prefer it to uprooting their families to move closer together.

I&#039;d still agree that companies trying to build virtual teams are all likely doomed to fail, and if any succeed they will pay a large price in productivity and agility.

When they haven&#039;t even tried a collocated agile before trying some distributed variant, I think it&#039;s an especially large mistake, as they quite literally don&#039;t know what they&#039;re missing. Often, they&#039;re trying to get the benefit of change without doing any of the work, like somebody who buys running shoes and a track outfit, and then just wears those while sitting on the couch.

Still, there are (very rare) examples of good distributed teams, and I think the real problem is people making some change in a half-assed and illusion-driven way, rather than distributed teams as such.

&lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Response:&lt;/strong&gt; Hi William.  Yes I agree with you.  When team members know each other as people (not just employees), have worked together physically, established a rapport and trust one another then working in a distributed fashion, by choice can work very well.

As you say, the problem is not distributed teams as such, but people not wanting to do the real work of change. &lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Tobias!</p>
<p>I used to agree completely with this, but have since coached exactly one distributed team that really is a team. They are a group of people who worked together for years physically, live just a couple hours&#8217; drive apart,  and have strong relationships. They get together physically as needed, circa once a month. The rest of the time, they work virtually, with a lot of audio conferencing and virtual pair programming. They know this isn&#8217;t ideal, but strongly prefer it to uprooting their families to move closer together.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d still agree that companies trying to build virtual teams are all likely doomed to fail, and if any succeed they will pay a large price in productivity and agility.</p>
<p>When they haven&#8217;t even tried a collocated agile before trying some distributed variant, I think it&#8217;s an especially large mistake, as they quite literally don&#8217;t know what they&#8217;re missing. Often, they&#8217;re trying to get the benefit of change without doing any of the work, like somebody who buys running shoes and a track outfit, and then just wears those while sitting on the couch.</p>
<p>Still, there are (very rare) examples of good distributed teams, and I think the real problem is people making some change in a half-assed and illusion-driven way, rather than distributed teams as such.</p>
<p><em><strong>Response:</strong> Hi William.  Yes I agree with you.  When team members know each other as people (not just employees), have worked together physically, established a rapport and trust one another then working in a distributed fashion, by choice can work very well.</p>
<p>As you say, the problem is not distributed teams as such, but people not wanting to do the real work of change. </em></p>
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		<title>By: Cat Schwamm</title>
		<link>http://agilethinking.net/blog/2008/07/18/distributed-teams-are-not-teams/comment-page-1/#comment-97181</link>
		<dc:creator>Cat Schwamm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:13:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agilethinking.net/blog/2008/07/18/distributed-teams-are-not-teams/#comment-97181</guid>
		<description>I completely agree with your post.  The company for which I work has all of its developers over a thousand miles away from the bulk of its actual clients.  We make quarterly trips to watch the processes and meet the users, and take our time to discuss with them the daily tasks they perform and how we can improve our software to ease their jobs and improve the quality of their performance.

Having worked with the company for a length of time before actually meeting with the clients, I found that the difference between emails and face to face contact is immeasurable.  I thought I knew so much until I actually talked to users and watched their daily processes; my performance has since improved enormously, and has been noted by our users and my supervisors.

The Scrum process is a wonderful tool and solution for users, but with a lack of knowledge, can easily be abused by managers looking for a quick and dirty way to &quot;improve&quot; their company.  Your comparison to child labor was not far off.

At any rate, a toast to your post, thanks for the read and the great links.

Cheers,
Cat</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely agree with your post.  The company for which I work has all of its developers over a thousand miles away from the bulk of its actual clients.  We make quarterly trips to watch the processes and meet the users, and take our time to discuss with them the daily tasks they perform and how we can improve our software to ease their jobs and improve the quality of their performance.</p>
<p>Having worked with the company for a length of time before actually meeting with the clients, I found that the difference between emails and face to face contact is immeasurable.  I thought I knew so much until I actually talked to users and watched their daily processes; my performance has since improved enormously, and has been noted by our users and my supervisors.</p>
<p>The Scrum process is a wonderful tool and solution for users, but with a lack of knowledge, can easily be abused by managers looking for a quick and dirty way to &#8220;improve&#8221; their company.  Your comparison to child labor was not far off.</p>
<p>At any rate, a toast to your post, thanks for the read and the great links.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Cat</p>
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		<title>By: Tobias</title>
		<link>http://agilethinking.net/blog/2008/07/18/distributed-teams-are-not-teams/comment-page-1/#comment-97172</link>
		<dc:creator>Tobias</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 12:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agilethinking.net/blog/2008/07/18/distributed-teams-are-not-teams/#comment-97172</guid>
		<description>The ScrumDevelopment online group discussion on this topic begins &lt;a target=&quot;_blank&quot; href=&quot;http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scrumdevelopment/message/31047&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ScrumDevelopment online group discussion on this topic begins <a target="_blank" href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scrumdevelopment/message/31047">here</a>.</p>
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